Thread: Pornography

I mostly agree. However, it seems as though you're forgetting one key point. Your argument is much like the feminist argument that the media exploits women in everyday advertisements.

Let's not forget though, Zip that these women are allowing themselves to be in these pornographic films. The director isn't holding a gun to their head. The man or men or midgets violating them aren't raping them.
The women are allowing them to shove their penises down their throat. They're permitting double penetration and the all of the disrespect.

They, the female pornstars themselves, should be the point of your attack. They're allowing men to exploit them. They're selling themselves.

A woman these days can't blame men for the state of affairs of chauvinism overlapping feminism. You don't find men being exploited by women because WE don't allow it.

I would attribute that to alot of women still having this warped view that they must do things like this to feel worth something...

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Let&#39;s not forget though, Zip that these women are allowing themselves to be in these pornographic films. The director isn&#39;t holding a gun to their head. The man or men or midgets violating them aren&#39;t raping them.[/b]

Hence the use of the word "capitalizing" in the article. My argument isn&#39;t quite the same as the exploitation of women in advertisements because those are far more subtle than a man grabbing a woman&#39;s hair and calling her a "fucking slut." It&#39;s the aggrandizement of the violence that bothers me. No, these women don&#39;t have to do what they&#39;re doing, but so long as there is a market for pornography, there will always be women willing to garnish an income by subjecting themselves to it. Just so long as there are openings at McDonalds, someone will fill in the jobs.

I don&#39;t blame the women for the market that was ultimately created.

Also...lots of women watch pornography. And not all of it is degrading, after all my ex-gf wouldn&#39;t have watched those pornos.


And boy did we ever watch a whooole bunch of porn and have sex. Daymn.

No, you guys are missing the point.

It&#39;s not degradating to the women *in* the movies. What happens is there&#39;s a message sent to the men who watch it who then in turn have a lowered sense of a woman&#39;s worth.

That&#39;s what I meant.

Originally posted by girl_ziplocked@Jul 18 2004, 02:06 PM
I don&#39;t blame the women for the market that was ultimately created.
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So then you blame the men naturally attracted to the women, not the women allowing themselves to be subjected to the degredation?

Originally posted by girl_ziplocked@Jul 18 2004, 03:17 PM
No, you guys are missing the point.

It&#39;s not degradating to the women *in* the movies. What happens is there&#39;s a message sent to the men who watch it who then in turn have a lowered sense of a woman&#39;s worth.

That&#39;s what I meant.
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I&#39;m going to have to disagree again with you, Holly.

I watch porno and I respect women.
The axiom "no two women are the same" holds true.
I, as do many men, seperate women into groups. Those that you respect as more than a cock receptacle, and those that you spray with Lysol.

To use the same logic as your argument, women would then see men as nothing but dominating assholes that don&#39;t care about anything but getting off if.
Sexually, and I&#39;m sure I&#39;m not alone on this either, I don&#39;t see women as being a means to an end. Making sure that she has an enjoyable experience is important too.
Infact, I usually HOPE girls that I meet aren&#39;t into gang bangs and deep throating...but that&#39;s just me...

To say there is a subconscious message with pornography, sure I&#39;ll agree. But when I watch a porno, I don&#39;t consider the worth of women, I consider the worth of that particular whore involved in the shoot.

Actually I do think Zippy has a point. And a valid one. And it isn&#39;t just the porn industry.

But honestly, I don&#39;t think there is one of you, not one, that can say that you honestly don&#39;t think that pornography trivializes sex. Nor that that trivialization has had an effect on relations between men and women. Especially in the age of the internet and free pornography.

Sad fact of the matter is, especially in today&#39;s "just say no" culture, that sex "education" is usually first introduced via pornography via the internet. And I don&#39;t think that anyone would lable that a quality "education".

Originally posted by rubytuesday@Jul 18 2004, 03:57 PM
Actually I do think Zippy has a point.* And a valid one.* And it isn&#39;t just the porn industry.

But honestly, I don&#39;t think there is one of you, not one, that can say that you honestly don&#39;t think that pornography trivializes sex.* Nor that that trivialization has had an effect on relations between men and women.* Especially in the age of the internet and free pornography.

Sad fact of the matter is, especially in today&#39;s "just say no" culture, that sex "education" is usually first introduced via pornography via the internet.* And I don&#39;t think that anyone would lable that a quality "education".
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I&#39;d say that pornography is the RESULT of a decrease in the nation&#39;s moral charcter, not the cause of it...
However, more or less, yes...pornography helps trivialize sex. That&#39;s not the issue at hand though

We&#39;re talking more about pornography objectifying women...or at least warping the image of women.

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I&#39;d say that pornography is the RESULT of a decrease in the nation&#39;s moral charcter, not the cause of it...[/b]

Don&#39;t be so sure. Porn and erotica as well as the entire sex industry has been around for some time. Porn existed long before our "social moral decay".

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However, more or less, yes...pornography helps trivialize sex. That&#39;s not the issue at hand though [/b]

Perhaps, perhaps not. Are you trying to say that the two aren&#39;t interconnected whatsoever? If so I will have to disagree. In fact I would say that pornography is the ultimate example of the trivialization of sex.

It&#39;s pretty well accepted that sex is a natural and normal part of ourselves. And when something is trivialized, it is easier to degrade it. If it&#39;s not that important, what does it matter if it&#39;s abused?

Porn, in my honest opinion, are the weeds in the sexual garden. And unfortunately, again in my opinion, porn has been given much more attention (fertilizer) than the "rose" of healthy sexual relations.

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We&#39;re talking more about pornography objectifying women...or at least warping the image of women.[/b]

Yes and that is what I am talking about. As soon as something is trivialized, like I said before, it is easier to abuse and degrade that which is associated with it.


And honestly, for my two cents, as a woman - I have seen far far far too many men learn sexual activities and attitudes from pornography. In doubt? Go doll yourself up as a woman (or go get a female friend to doll herself up while you observe from the other end of the room) and go to a bar. After that if you have any doubts about the sexually degrading attitude that many people (and not just men) have about sex, then I&#39;d be shocked.

Porn does trivialize sex a little I guess. To be honest though, I think the more pressing concern is that there is so much hardcore freely and easily available, it desensitizes people to what sex should be about, especially younger people. God knows I&#39;ve seen enough porno in my time, and I have to say it has affected the sex that I have had with some girls. It doesn&#39;t now, but it did. I hardly ever watch porn now to be honest, I mean once you&#39;ve seen a certain amount, theres not really much more you can see. But kids of this generation have access to material that other generations didn&#39;t, right at their fingertips. That&#39;s gotta be doing something to their psyche. The cumshots that Zip alluded to are representative of this - The way they are portrayed on most sites is that its a domination thing, and that &#39;sluts&#39; love it. Anal covers pretty much the same terretory, as does &#39;gloryhole&#39; and bukkake porno.

Thankfully I&#39;ve had &#39;meaningful sex&#39; and so know where the line is drawn, but I could see how someone with no reference point could easily form an incorrect and dangerous opinion about sexual activity. Reffering to women as &#39;sluts&#39; and &#39;whores&#39; on websites is just standard now, and thinks seem to be getting more and more hardcore and more available. In my opinion, this is going to do lasting damage to the internet generation, and the relationship between the two sexes.

Edit by rubytuesday: Scamp I merged your posts as there were a couple different elements in each. For your future reference, the reason you didn&#39;t see the original post appear is because all posts in the Articles section must be approved individually.

Guys are sexually attracted to different things than women. Porn is a utility. It isn&#39;t supposed to be a work of cinematic art, with wonderful actors who induce blurry eyes in the audience from dramatic scenes. The whole point is to be as sexualy gratifying to the audience as possible, so the audience can get off as quickly as possible. The audeince of visual porn is predominantly male. Women supposedly like written erotica more than visual stuff, I personally get bored toshit and not turned on at all by it.

The point is, it may be degrading to women, but porn isn&#39;t meant to be a moral example of how to act in society. It is an outlet for a dude to jack off in 3 minutes. Hence, women with gigantic tits, and asses, shaved vulvas, big dick sucking lips, heavily makeuped faces... etc. I understand your point, but if porns were these educational, well written films with good camera work, more romantic plots, less vulgarity, and more "realism" then no guy would want to watch them. That stuff appeals to women.

This arguement is very close to the "video games make kids fucked up" arguement, which I call complete bullshit on. I can play a game where I shoot people for fun, and at the same time have compassion for real human life. Likewise, I can get off to a porn where a girl is getting a black dudes nuts in her ass while he fucks her with his dick at the same time, while two other dudes stand there laughign, but at the same time I can respect a woman as more than meat in real life.

Porn is just a fantasy, it isn&#39;t reality.

I can understand what you are saying Tovl. Much of anything in society is defined by how we deal with it.

But the question is, do you think pornography is guilty of promoting unhealthy attitudes about sex, gender relations and the opposite sex (not just about women, but men too)?

Originally posted by rubytuesday@Jul 18 2004, 03:20 PM
I can understand what you are saying Tovl.* Much of anything in society is defined by how we deal with it.

But the question is, do you think pornography is guilty of promoting unhealthy attitudes about sex, gender relations and the opposite sex (not just about women, but men too)?
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Definately. However, like most things in life, only those unwilling to learn. I myself watched some porn before I ever got laid. However, I also talked with my parents about healthy sexual life, read some books about how to truely please women, etc. If a man&#39;s priority is to really please his parner, he is not going to just assume one example and stop looking. I ate up as much material as i could on the act so that when the time came, i would be prepared.

I have never been labelled as a bad lover, and yet I have watched porn since I was 13. Porn shows very unrealistic situations, with poor attitudes from both sexes, but if one recognizes the fantasy-attribute of these films, they are rendered harmless. It is only when people begin to think that it is proper practice.