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Reply With QuoteBiological or environmental?
Well to a point yeah but the analogy is there because once you're addicted to something, you're always addicted to it, you just stop using. If you're gay, you're gay. Being a non-practising homosexual is different to being straight.Originally Posted by Gutter
Well, I wouldn't put any of those things into the catagory of proper 'brainwashing'. Your parents telling you you'll get grounded if you go out isn't brainwashing. The threat of prison if you kill someone isn't brainwashing. Just because you adhere to rules, doesn't mean you've been brainwashed does it? Am I brainwashed because I piss in the toilet and not over my balcony onto the street below?heeh, on the govement thing what do you think the law is? heres a set of rules to follow.. you have to follow them or else.. isnt that brainwashing?
pay your taxes or else the irs will get you..
i can go on and on about how goverments control their people thru brainwashing.. suggestion you might say um okay do you know what peer pressure is...and yea sure there are alot of revolts around the world with people who fight for what they believe in i guess those would be your people that dont give into brainwashing or suggestion.. someone might call them terrorist or radicals.
I know this topic isn't 'about' brainwashing but it's relevant because I don't believe that organisations like NARTH can reprogram people to not be gay.
Last edited by Brewtality; 11-20-2009 at 01:57 PM.
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler
Awards:
What about religion? Same kinda thing yeah?
Remember that something can be biological AND environmental. There's genes that only 'switch on' if the proper environmental factors appear.
Yeah I was gonna say. It doesn't seem to be a black and white thing.
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler
Awards: who knows?
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler
tia to answer your question take away sight and hearing so you only have the sensation of touch, smell, and taste. then tell me if you can learn to enjoy being gay or straight. or if its just an instinct. to know that your going to like the feel of a women or man.
Zerosum
You can mostly definitely have a preference of penis or vah-jay-jay without sight and hearing.
"The deepest definition of youth is life as yet untouched by tragedy."
-Alfred North Whitehead
"Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world."
-Arthur Schopenhauer
how would you know the difference between some chick with a strap on and a guy with a dick?
or some guys lubed up ass and a pussy?
or a guys or girls mouth giving you oral if you couldnt see or hear them?
Zerosum
Awards: Okay Brew, so if you can't say for certain whether its caused by genetics or environment, or both, I don't see how you can say for certain that this 'brain reprogramming' doesn't work.
If in some cases it is environmental rather than genetic, then the brain has been programmed by the environment in order to think in a homosexual way (prison being example numero one), and surely can be reprogrammed by a different environment in order to think in a heterosexual way.
Because you can feel them? And I can guarantee that a plastic dildo feels different than a dick and balls. Ask any woman, she will tell you that. And incidentally, strap-ons do as much for me as the real thing do, so it's a moot point for me, I wouldn't like it either way.
And really? Asses feel different than vaginas, too. Really different. Isn't that the point of anal sex, that they don't feel the same? Do you really think that all these things feel the same?
And then.. the difference between smooth skin and stubble or hair? The difference between curves and muscle? Boobs and a flat chest? Come on. There's so much difference, it's ridiculous.
So why not answer your own question? If someone made you blind and deaf tomorrow, could you sleep with a man? You still have not told me if you think you could sleep with a man.
Tri-
Just because the environment may cause a gene to 'switch on' doesn't mean that it is able to be switched off. It may be a 'once it's done, it's done' type of deal.
Last edited by Tia; 11-21-2009 at 12:53 PM.
tia i know that but if you were born that way how would you know the difference? its just as much as knowing the difference between right and wrong? just think of it like this there are whole groups of people that believe its good to eat people why? cause thats what there culture is. you dont believe that culture has anything to do with how people act?
and to answer all of your questions how the hell would i know im not gay im not going to go put a strap on in my ass. or put my dick in another guys ass why? cause it discuss me not that i know what it feels like it might be the greatest thing in the world but im never going to try it.
you dont think its someones choice to do stuff? or like what they do its just all instinct?
And then.. the difference between smooth skin and stubble or hair? The difference between curves and muscle? Boobs and a flat chest?
what if you get some guy that shaves all his body hair or is waxes all the time just like a women and puts lotion on just like a woman?.. um fat people dont have muscles and have curvey bodies and boobs some girls are also flat when it comes to boobs and some are butch as any guy so whats your point its just what you find attractive to your eye? the only real difference is one has a cock n balls and the other has a slit and can make babies.oh yeah one extra rib.
Last edited by Gutter; 11-21-2009 at 03:26 PM. Reason: wanted to answer last few questions
Zerosum
I think the prison thing is more to do with craving closeness and sexual contact with a person than it is to do with homosexuality. You seem to get effeminate guys who are effectively viewed as women. It's pretty fucked up methinks.
I think people can be influenced very heavily but, for example, I don't think that I could go to a course and be turned gay.
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler
Okay so saying all that, why couldn't you have sex with a man? If fat hairless lotiony men are so similar to women and the difference between a penis and a vagina is so unimportant then why couldn't you have sex with a man? If it's no big deal? Because it disgusts you? Well it disgusts me, too! See, we can agree on that. So are you choosing to be disgusted by a man, or does it happen instinctually? And if your disgust is instinctual, why can't mine be as well?
Sure culture can affect behavior--- but culture can't affect who you're attracted to. Attraction is instinctive and you can't help it. If culture affected attraction then I don't know why there are gay people at all, from around 1900-1950s homophobia in this country was at such a high level that you'd think that would encourage people to not be gay. Yet, even in the most intolerant regions of the world, there are still gay people. If it was a cultural thing I don't see how that could happen. It wasn't exactly encouraged.
Plus, like I said, behavior is different from what you feel. You could decide to be celibate today and stop having sex. But you'd still be attracted to women, you just wouldn't act on it. You could decide to have sex with a man, just like I could decide to have sex with a man. But it wouldn't make you gay any more than it would make me straight. We'd both be utterly miserable.
Last edited by Tia; 11-22-2009 at 12:44 AM.
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