Thread: A Weighty Issue

A Weighty Issue
By rubytuesday & Muttering Bill*

Introduction
Okay ladies, let's talk about weight. As a woman, I know this can be a very sensitive issue. Not too long ago this sweet go-getter of a 14-year-old girl posted a question regarding her weight. She felt she was heavy and in truth probably was. This beautiful little soul approached Stupid-Boy wanting to know if the men of the community thought heavy women are attractive. The gentlemen they can be, they rose gallantly to the occasion trying to reassure her. The consensus was that although men were generally attracted to thinner women that she sounded like a wonderful person and she shouldn't worry
about it. However if it bothered her then she should do something about it. She bemoaned the difficulties of losing weight and we stepped up to the plate with suggestions as to how she might get started. We never heard from her again. She was just 14 years old and already feeling the pressures put on her by about her weight.

When I look back into my past, weight was always an issue. But in truth, my family was/is overly image conscious. I was about 10 pounds overweight throughout my teen years and into my early twenties. Ten
stupid pounds and I let it twist me into knots. Maybe it was my age, or maybe it was that weight and body image were such a large focus when I was growing up, but at no time in my past was I happy with how I looked. The sad thing is that my extreme sensitivity to the issue of weight and body image is common to many women out there. Unfortunately, for women, the media and our culture focus massive attention on a woman's looks and body. Now the odd thing is that even women with near perfect bodies can still be insecure about how they look. To be honest this amazes me, but we all have our demons.

I can't wave a magic wand and alleviate the sensitivity or the pressure that we women feel. (Oh believe me if I could, I would!) However I would like to share a few personal thoughts about the high expectations that we place on ourselves. First off, only a very small percentage of the population has perfect bodies. To expect yourself to maintain a Hollywood standard of beauty is not only pointless but harmful to your self-esteem as well. These actresses and models have armies of physical trainers, dieticians, make-up artists, hairdressers and fashion designers all working together to create that image. The look that you see plastered across all of those fashion magazines only comes with intense behind-the-scenes labor. Well for all of us people in the real world, it doesn't work that way. In fact a lot of those actresses and models, when left to their own devices, look absolutely terrible. Secondly, I personally think that the models out there are too damn thin. It is very sad indeed to see a beautiful size 10 woman look enviously at a size 2 supermodel. That is one of the cruelest of absurdities. Why on earth is the current standard of beauty symbolized by visible hipbones? These women often starve themselves or take drugs to force their bodies into submission. That is not only unnatural but is every bit as dangerous as obesity.

As a man, I even feel that the media, at times, presents a somewhat inaccurate image of women. They support the reasoning that the thinner a woman is, the prettier she must be. This isn't really true. Though many actresses are very attractive, there are plenty who are unappealing because they are underweight. Julia Roberts, Mena Suvari, and Courtney Cox are all prime examples to llustrate my point. Pretty… maybe, but a couple of extra pounds would serve them well. On the other hand, look at Kate Winslet, she takes a lot of heat from critics regarding her weight, but in my opinion, that she's just slightly "chubby" makes her very sexy.

There is much more pressure on women regarding every aspect of appearance. Men can get away with dressing in a basic jeans-and-t-shirt manner, whereas women are expected to wear revealing and alluring outfits. Being overweight doesn't necessarily make us un-dateable. It is easier for a woman to overlook physical flaws, and to find attraction based on personality, than it is for a man. It's not fair; you'll get no argument from me, but that's the way it is. Until the media, and society in general, decides to put more emphasis on men's appearances, this is something that we have to deal with, and try to
work through.

How Fat is Fat?
I can tell you from personal experience that the fact of the matter is that a woman can be up to about 25 pounds overweight and still get her fair share of attention from the menfolk. Men are much more forgiving than we give them credit for. Given, women are generally more open-minded about looks especially in light of the man's abilities, but the principles are the same. We look at the whole package when we are sizing a man up. Well men do the same. It's all in the presentation. If we as women look nice and feel sexy then there are some men who will be attracted. The few or so extra pounds you are sporting mean nothing to most men. Now I am aware there are some men that who do insist on having a Skinny Minnie. Well all I can say is so be it. Fine let them be that way, but do not drive yourself crazy trying to please the minority of the male population. Overall most men realize that the heart and soul of a woman is much more important than the little extra padding around her hips. In fact, most men prefer a woman with a few curves, especially over those rail thin models.

I can tell you, from a man's point of view, that a little extra weight on a woman can actually be a good thing. Having an extra 10 pounds helps to fill out the breasts, butt and thighs. It makes a woman's overall appearance softer. This body type is what we barbarians commonly refer to as "not-fat-but-not-thin" (crude, but necessary considering how the term "chubby" incites an exaggerated picture in our simple minds). This is very appealing for many men. I for one would much rather have a soft woman, than a rigid, bony one. How fun would it be to give my girl a hug and be stabbed by a rib?

Here is a nifty tidbit that I think is a fairly accurate method to determine if you should be worried about your weight:

"…A simple test… start with 100 pounds for the first five feet of your height. Then add five pounds for each additional inch. That's roughly your ideal weight. If you are 20% over, you have a weight problem…" Brush, Michael. The fatter we get, the better they do. 26 – June 2002.
http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/P25392.asp

The test for men deals with different numbers, but we're not concerned with them right now. If you haven't crossed the threshold from overweight to obesity, don't worry about it; men will still find you
attractive if you're a little heavier than this ideal. Excessive worry and poor body image will increase your chances of developing an eating disorder. Realizing that there is nothing wrong with you can help to prevent that. However, if you are more than 20% over… You may want to consider reassessing your lifestyle.

So please ladies, take it from a woman who knows, if you have a few pounds hanging on do not be too hard on yourselves. The men really don't care that much. As long as you are happy and healthy and feel sexy you have nothing to lose. Nothing to lose, that is, except the perception that you are fat.

Now if you are more than a "few" pounds overweight…It is a different story.

The Truth About Being Fat and Attractive
Before I begin I would like to make something of a disclaimer: If you are fat, not just overweight, but fat and your love life is not suffering because of it do not bother reading this and go about your merry way. However, if your size is affecting your love life and you wonder what is wrong, please read on. There are some things that need to be said.

I would like to give you some information about myself. After college I began to make some, seemingly innocent at the time, bad lifestyle choices. I began partying way too much, eating a lot of fast food, and
quit dancing. By the age of 26 I was up to a size 24. Over the course of the next five years I went back and forth between a size 24 and 28. Now I am a tall-ish woman in that I am 5'8" but no matter how tall you are you can't hide that much width. I swore I was happy with myself. For some reason, I didn't see what everybody else did. Sure I was "heavy", but I didn't look that bad. In truth, I was obese and turned a blind eye to my fat. However, after six years of being alone I could ignore it no more. At age 31, I woke up and pulled my shit together. I started eating healthy and taking care of myself. I still have a little ways to go, but the majority of my journey is over.

I remember wondering, "What is wrong with men? How shallow can they be? Can't any of them see past my size and see me for the beautiful, smart and passionate woman that I am?" I knew that when I went out with my thinner friends that they would get men's attention while I would be lucky for a man to make eye contact with me, lest I mistake it for interest on their part. Or if they did they were only interested in me after they had struck out with other women or were drunk… and only for sex. Now the ironic thing was that most of these men were not up to my caliber of person. I would have had to "drink them pretty" or at least interesting. A match made in heaven? I think not. I still had my pride. Well I discovered I could hold my pride defiantly to my chest like a badge of honor and it still wouldn't attract men to me. The world wasn't going to change because of my hurt feelings and bruised pride. So I got depressed. And what does any fat woman do when she is depressed? Well if she is like the majority, she eats. And so it continues. Food, weight gain, depression, food…. with no end and no man in sight. All because "men couldn't see the real me…." The path of least resistance is a very dangerous one.

Well I have learned a few things since then. And the answer to the $64,000 question "Do men find fat women attractive" is for the most part NO. I am aware there are a few men that who have a fat fetish and, bless their souls, they make a few fat women very happy, but by and large men do not think that fat women are attractive. When men are asked that question, it puts them in a double bind trying to explain and defend why nature made them the way they are. People do not have control over what lights their fires, so to speak. It just happens, it cannot be forced. Ladies, let me put it to you this way (and forgive the double standard but it illustrates my point) would you want to date a guy that who dressed poorly, was ugly, or that whom you had to support? I sure as hell wouldn't. After all I am an attractive, intelligent and capable woman, why would I want to settle for somebody of lesser qualities to justify the principle of not judging a book by its cover? There are plenty of quality men out there who also happen to be attractive and intelligent.

Now before you ladies get up in arms and yell "Traitor! You used to be one of us! You should understand!" bear in mind that that is where I am coming from. Remember, I used to be overweight. (And overweight is a kind term. Obese would more likely be appropriate. But I never liked that word. Who the hell does?) And believe me I do understand.

I spent six years alone trying to justify myself and figure out why "men were so shallow" and why they couldn't see the real me. I lost six years of my potential love life to obesity. It just doesn't work. There
is no part of this equation that adds up. Indulging yourself continually – whether it is with food or laziness – reflects on your body and in turn reflects on your character. All the men weren't really shallow. When they looked at me they saw a woman that who didn't care enough about herself to take care of herself. They saw the real me, I just didn't want to see it myself. Even wondering why they didn't see the real me was ludicrous from a humanistic perspective. How can anyone see the real you if they are looking at you for the first time? I expected men to have Superman's x-ray vision into my personality. I don't have x-ray vision into their heads, how could they into mine? The first impression of not taking care of myself is what most men saw. That is something you just can't get past no matter how hard you try.

So if you are truly fat and you do not have a glandular disorder, do not get down on men because you have issues with your personal weakness. This may sound bitchy and unsympathetic, but the world has a way of knocking you on your ass if you're looking for sympathy. If you want to attract men, then be attractive. Eat healthy foods, exercise and be prepared to do it for the long haul. It is the little steps you
take over a long period of time that make up the road of the journey you are on. You do not have to be Jennifer Lopez or that anorexic looking Cameron Diaz, but you should look healthy. And I am not using
the term healthy like the politically correct "fit" that a few men are bandying about to be interpreted as skinny. I mean that you should look healthy, like you take care of yourself. Men are much more forgiving than we give them credit for. An extra 10 or 15 pounds to us can seem like a ton, but to most men it is laughable. Even though I am not where I want to be quite yet (almost!) the interest of men has expanded at an exponential rate. Yes, on some level I do have a right to be irritated that these same men that who are eyeing me now paid no attention to me when I was fat. However I choose not to take that tack. Men are the way they are, they can no more help being attracted by physical appearance than we as women can control our attraction to strong and confident men.

What I have said comes straight from a woman that who used to be fat. It is not a pretty picture, but I have tried to supply you with the unvarnished truth as I see it. However, there is more than one side to
this debate. Bill has been kind enough to step forward and try to explain a man's point of view. A daunting task he has taken on: explaining the perspective of the male species on the issue of fat women.

What's Wrong With Men?
First off, I need to make it clear that my views do not necessarily represent the opinions of all men. I consider myself to be an average 23 year old male, and of the majority as far as my preferences in women. So, why are men so concerned with looks? One possible answer: it reinforces how attractive we believe ourselves to be. The caliber of woman that we date reflects on our own quality. We pursue beautiful women sometimes for nothing more than the image that being seen with them projects to other men. Do you want to be the one we show off? I doubt it; that's sexist and disrespectful. Don't I know the proper way to treat a lady? Yes, but these are new instincts of a modern age. Our culture is at a point where one's worth is measured by his image. For a man, part of that image is the women we associate with. It's a result of mass interpretation propagated by the media. The television shows us what type of women it is socially acceptable for us to be involving ourselves with. We, being the stupid boys we are, are buying into a competition that they've been subliminally selling to us. This results in us reflexively putting pressure on each other. The way we comment on each other's girlfriend, or some random woman that who happens to walk by, illustrates which women we consider as being acceptable for each other to date. As men can be very harsh on each other, we want to avoid calling any derision to ourselves. Therefore we comply with the "rules" that have been set forth by our peers. Maturity does allow some divergence from the need to please/impress each other, but the pressures don't completely disappear.

To call us shallow for preferring a thinner body type is grossly unfair. After all, women do it too. Honestly, would you rather be with a guy who looked like John Goodman or Brad Pitt? An extreme example perhaps, but this is precisely the type of thing we're being persecuted for. In the past a woman's value was judged largely on the merits of her husband; it was important for her to find a man who was financially secure. A man who was ambitious and competent enough to provide proper care and comfort for them both. Obviously things have changed; women are no longer held under the same stringent gender roles. Yet, in some cases, the ideals to classify a worthy man have stayed the same. This puts a lot of pressure on us to be successful. And with that success may come the notion that we deserve an even more beautiful woman to match. Ultimately, we have no choice over whom we are attracted to. There is no conscious decision to say, "I will like this girl because…" It just happens; there's some quality, be it physical or behavioral, which strikes us as compelling. Sometimes that quality is blonde hair, large breasts and a thin waistline. Since we, as a society, like to generalize, it is assumed that this is the type of woman all men are drawn to. There's no doubt that many of us do enjoy those who fit these specifications, but these aren't the only things that will get our attention.

Men will often state that we don't put much emphasis on looks; we're generally lying. Usually this will come up in conversation under two conditions: either while flirting with an attractive girl, or arguing with an unattractive one. We're often accused of being shallow and chauvinistic because of the type of women we are attracted to, so we use this line in defense. Our true nature is denied to either ease the pretty girls worries that we are interested purely for her looks (we understand how much you dislike being objectified), or to try and make the ugly ones feel like there's still a chance for them, but don't go too far else they'll think their chance is with us. Dishonest? Yes, but when one is feeling cornered these white lies save face and maintain everyone's dignity.

For the fat women that who I have gotten to know, it was a matter of proximity. They were people that I either worked or attended school with. Based solely on appearance, I might not have given them a second look. They may be intriguing people, so I would certainly speak with them if they were to initiate a conversation. In making the first contact, there is always the risk of someone mistaking friendliness for romantic interest. Their misinterpreting my intent would have placed me in an awkward position. (As an aside, being thin does not guarantee attraction; this problem is relevant in approaching any woman with a purpose other than enticement. It is just especially sensitive with a heavy woman.) To avoid encouraging unwanted interest, I would have refrained from starting a discussion with them. That these were people I would have to deal with on a daily basis, in a sense, forced me to talk to them (I mean, I couldn't very well ignore them, lest the pretty girls think me discourteous or insensitive.) After getting to know them, I found that some of them did have lovely personalities. Now, do I overlook their obvious weight problem and ask them on a date? No. I say things like, "If she were only 50 pounds lighter…" It's true that some guys enjoy large women, probably more than will admit to it because they are subject to ridicule and condescension from us "normal guys." Even so, they are a rarity; the majority of us find this fascination an anomaly. Excessive weight is a very difficult thing for us to get past, primarily because of sex. You all know how obsessed we are about that, right? Sexual arousal relies largely on physical stimulation. The scent of a woman's perfume, the tone of her voice whispering encouragement, the pride of knowing how much our actions please her; these all do come into play. Our feeling, be it love or something else entirely, also affects our willingness. But, in my opinion, none so much as the way we are being touched, and the woman we are touching in turn. Visual aspects have an influence on us psychologically; without that exterior beauty, one could hardly expect Little Bill to be eager to perform. "A little cushion for the pushin'?" Yeah. A lot of cushion… thanks, but I'll pass.

Now, please try not to take offense at what Bill and I have written here. I am the first to know that your weight does not affect your value as a person. I am positive that you have many worthy qualities to
bring to the table in a relationship. Your weight does not affect the intellect in your brain, the gentleness in your soul nor the love in your heart. Unfortunately it does affect how men perceive you. It is not fair, but it is reality. I would like you to know that the power to attract the opposite sex begins and ends with you. By being fat you give up that power with the majority of the male population.

I would also like to take a moment to caution you against self-pity. It is a very destructive trait. It wastes time and energy. It saps your soul of the beauty that is life. If you want to do something about your weight, set your preconceived notions aside and choose to live a healthy lifestyle. When I was younger there was a saying that my grandfather had: Sometimes you just need to pull yourself up by your bootstraps and march on. Well, so it is here. If you are seriously overweight and it is killing your love life then it is time to do something about it.

A Note Regarding Men and Physical Attraction
As teenagers, when we guys are first discovering girls, personality doesn't factor in much when deciding whom we are interested in. At this age we just want someone to grope and make out with. Having a girlfriend is more of a status symbol; we show off to our friends and belittle those who aren't as fortunate. Within as little time as a couple of years, we begin to realize that we need not only a pretty face, but also someone we can communicate with, to share our experiences and innermost feelings. We aren't comfortable creating this type of a bond with other men. So we search for women who both look nice and can understand, and relate to, our interests and method of thinking. Well, this limits our options. It's hard to find women who are able to satisfy both qualities. At some point we're going to have to make some compromises. Being so young, I still find it easier to sacrifice personality for the desire to have someone physically appealing. But I understand that I can't get by in this manner for too long. Eventually other, more valuable, qualities will begin to take precedence over outward appearance. In a sense, we become more selfish. With age will often come the maturity to put less of an emphasis on strictly finding beautiful women, and showing off to our friends. We instead look more for someone affable with which to share our time. Looks are always a factor, but as we mature we realize that it isn't as important as we had thought it to be in our youth.

As a woman who has observed men for years, I can truthfully tell you that as men age they will never cease to appreciate a beautiful woman. It is a good thing for them that that is part of their charm, eh
ladies? However as men mature they do focus much more on the personality and character of a woman as opposed to her face and body. As teens, boys are much more focused on looks. After all they are at
the beginning of their journey with women, they don't know any better yet. When they get a little older they begin to look at the personality, wanting to date a compatible woman. Yes they will still head for the beauties more often than not. They get their hearts broken, time marches on and they begin to realize that they can't focus on looks alone. They begin to look for compatible women, ones they can share their interests with. Yes she will still be physically appealing, but by no means the supermodel he lusted for in his past. But because she is someone that he can share himself with she becomes that much more attractive to him. Although men start out placing great importance on the physical aspects of women, as they mature the desire for a deeper bond tempers that aspect of their nature.




The Importance and Limitations of Fitness
So, you slim down and find yourself a man, all set right? Not so fast. Often times we concentrate on making ourselves desirable only when we are single, as it is the most effective way to find a partner. (I'm not placing all the blame on you; we men do it as well.) Once a relationship has been established, we will reach a certain level of comfort wherein we no longer put forth the effort necessary to make, or keep, ourselves attractive. We no longer try to impress each other. This is a mistake; there is always a need to maintain physical appeal. Women will revert to the "if he really cared about me it wouldn't matter" line of thinking. The problem is, if the relationship is relatively young then we are not so attached that your personality will compensate for our loss of attraction. Gaining 10 or 15 pounds is fine; just don't let it get out of hand. There's no guarantee that any relationship is going to last. You need to stay prepared, so that if and when it ends you'll be ready to get back into the dating market and interest a new man.

What Bill is trying to say, no matter how barbaric it may sound, is that in order to be attractive you have to stay attractive. I know a lot of women that who are very unhappy with the beer belly their significant others have seemingly grown. And to put it plainly, when it's just the ladies around, they make no bones about how they are turned off by it. Sure, you won't see many women leaving their men over it. Instead they talk about it behind their men's back. Or worse yet, belittle him. I have seen it. It is not pretty. My point is that however men may think about it, women can be just as guilty of this sin. We just do it in a different way. It is important for women and men both to take care of themselves. Relationships are a lot more fun if the fire remains lit. Now of course, Bill and I are not saying that looks are everything. Goodness knows that is the farthest thing from the truth. The fact of the matter is that in order to be seeing anyone for an extended period of time you have to be compatible with them. Personality, goals, interests and a number of other factors all play into the equation. It is nice to look good, but it is much nicer to be an interesting person who happens to look good as well.

Sometimes we (I'm talking about people in general, not just us men or you women) can put too much effort into weight maintenance, to the detriment of personality. Our lives start to revolve around our diet and workout regime. We spend less time visiting with friends and more time at the gym. This over-saturation will lead to a loss in life experience. How can any of us expect to keep a potential date interested if the only thing we can bring to a conversation is the benefits of exercising in the morning as opposed to the evening, or what food is the best source for potassium? That path only will lead to insecurity, and more loneliness. One's boy/girlfriend may feel neglected because their partner is spending more time concentrating on improving their own body, than spending time with them. A healthy relationship can't survive under these conditions. Who would want to be involved with someone who isn't giving them enough attention? That a fantastic body isn't enough to keep somebody interested may be interpreted as an insult on one's worth, and lead back to depression. Sure some women are so stunning that we might overlook their lack of depth. To mask our obsession with looks, we can sometimes convince ourselves that they are good people. If we are so impressed by their appearance, we may give them more amiable qualities to try and to ease our own superficiality. It doesn't last though. Eventually the novelty will wear off, and we will be yearning for someone who can better fulfill our intellectual and personal needs. Looks will only go so far, you need the character to back them up. Personality makes friends, and physical desire makes lovers; a strong relationship needs both to prosper.

Ruby's Final Thoughts
I hope that we have been able to clearly communicate the insidious subtleties of weight. On one hand, our culture seems hell bent on testing a woman's ability to be happy with her body, however that does
not mean we should buy into it. At the opposite end of the spectrum, we see that a disregard for how we look can have some serious side effects. Well, I would like to advocate a middle ground. We women can be incredibly sensitive about the issue of weight. We need to ask ourselves just how much of a factor in our lives is it. Does it really need to be focused on so much? In short, if you aren't model thin or even (gasp) trim, don't beat yourself up over it. Life is too short. However, if you are so heavy that it interferes with how people see you then it may be time to so something about it.

In general, it is important for people to look good; the human race is a visual one. We do like aesthetic appeal. However, we are also a diverse group. Just because one standard of beauty is prevalent, it is
ridiculous to think it is the only game in town, so to speak. We must broaden our perspectives as people and give ourselves a little leeway. In other words, our perceptions are literally all in our minds. If we
expect others to pinhole us into a particular look, it is all too easy to do the same thing to ourselves. There are as many standards of beauty as there are types of women.

Lastly, regardless of all that has been said here it is important to remember that beauty is only skin deep. No matter how attractive you may or may not be, the surface is only the surface. You can be the most beautiful woman in the world and still be absolutely contemptible. Just as you can be the hunchback of Notre Dame's twin and, like the fairy tale, have a heart of gold. Although it is important to be attractive, it is what is on the inside that counts. Women, and people in general for that matter, are more than just the sum of their parts.

That was a great article. A little long, but there's a lot to say about this topic. I was overweight at around fourteen, but I took control and now have a trim figure. I feel different about myself at different times. Sometimes I think I need to lose about 5-10 pounds, and other times I admire myself in the mirror and think to myself that I'm gorgeous, because guys probably like a little curviness. And without a little extra fat, I'd probably look underfed and very bony. So I was especially interested to see Bill's comments, because they confirmed to me what I hoped was true. I guess plenty of guys will find me attractive - when I stop dressing like a five-year-old...

It is so time to go to the mall.