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Reply With QuoteI'd buy a controlled demolition of WTC7, but there's some very good explanations of why the first two towers went down that make it much more likely they collapsed on their own.
The final mystery of 9/11 (erm, how about who planned, funded and carried it out?) will soon be solved, according to US experts investigating the collapse of the third tower at the World Trade Center.
The 47-storey third tower, known as Tower Seven, collapsed seven hours after the twin towers.
Investigators are expected to say ordinary fires on several different floors caused the collapse. Conspiracy theorists have argued that the third tower was brought down in a controlled demolition. Unlike the twin towers, Tower Seven was not hit by a plane.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology, based near Washington DC, is expected to conclude in its long-awaited report this month that ordinary fires caused the building to collapse.
That would make it the first and only steel skyscraper in the world to collapse because of fire.
The National Institute of Standards and Technology's lead investigator, Dr Shyam Sunder, spoke to BBC Two's "The Conspiracy Files":
"Our working hypothesis now actually suggests that it was normal building fires that were growing and spreading throughout the multiple floors that may have caused the ultimate collapse of the buildings."
However, a group of architects, engineers and scientists say the official explanation that fires caused the collapse is impossible. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth argue there must have been a controlled demolition. The founder of the group, Richard Gage, says the collapse of the third tower is an obvious example of a controlled demolition using explosives.
"Building Seven is the smoking gun of 9/11. A sixth grader can look at this building falling at virtually freefall speed, symmetrically and smoothly, and see that it is not a natural process.
"Buildings that fall in natural processes fall to the path of least resistance", says Gage, "they don't go straight down through themselves."
BBC NEWS | Americas | 9/11 third tower mystery 'solved'
Well, we can all rest easy now because that 'final' mystery has been solved! It was in fact what we were told all along. The collapse of WTC tower 7 was in fact the first and only ever collapse of a steel-structured skyscraper as the result of fire. Wow. What a coinkydink! I'd be interested to know what new evidence has come to light considering that all of the steel from WTC 7 was carted away and melted down quicker than you can say 'burn the evidence'!
My take? Well, you can never be sure can you but I have a couple of ideas. It does seem pretty obvious that the building was collapsed with a controlled demoliton. You can see that just by looking at it and there are scores of architects and engineers who would agree. But what does that mean? Does it point to a massive conspiracy? No, not neccesarily. New York is a very densely populated city with many, many tall buildings. They have to be tall so that they can have a relatively small footbprint yet still have a large volume. And what would happen were one of these buildings collapse sideways? Oh shit, it'd take out a hell of a lot of real estate and New Yorkers. Imagine if the WTC twin-towers went over like that. If a huge chunk of building collapsed down onto Manhattan. The devestation would be quite horrific. So what do you do? You bring it right down, you don't run the risk of causing more damage.
But could you imagine what would happen if people knew that the building they were in might be demolished if there was an accident or fire? Hmmm....
I certainly rule out some huge government conspiracy to blow up the WTC and Pentagon but I certainly wouldn't rule out secret emergency contingency plans to pull down buildings in order to minimise casualties. It's dcertainly interesting to consider, and may explain the apparent use of thermide in the two-towers although more probing would be needed.
Thoughts?
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler
I'd buy a controlled demolition of WTC7, but there's some very good explanations of why the first two towers went down that make it much more likely they collapsed on their own.
Awards:
pretty sure that the trade center bombings go right next to the jfk file.
Zerosum
Yeah, and for the most part me too. In that I don't really buy the official story but there are also some whacky conspiracy theories.
WTC 7 is just a very strange situation indeed and the 'pull it' quote just adds (jet?) fuel to the fire. To be honest, having a contingency plan which involves the controlled demolition of unsafe buildings in such a built up area makes a lot of sense, as does keeping such a plan secret. Governments have all sorts of such plans locked away whether they be lists of cities they would 'hapilly' lose in the event of a disease outbreak or war or plans for demolishing buildings which could cause immense damage to the surrounding areas should they collapse.
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler
Seems like the only logical conclusion.
Sweet as the Punch.Syco- "The Empress is the latter leg of this triad, representing the physical body and the material world. From her comes all the pleasure of the senses and the abundance of life in all its forms. She is also the mother archetype, and through her we get a first glimpse of the power of love in the Tarot." I think this is all representative of awesomly large tits, no?
Hmmm. Valid thinking here, I must say. But I have a question perhaps someone can answer for me. As you know controlled demolition involves massive explosives and wires to detonate. When and how did these exploses and detonation devices arrive in this structure without someone seeing them. Was it done as the structure was being built? Where would it have been placed as to go unnoticed? And most importantly why? As for the fires causing collapse, would a fully fuled plane not have enough fire and heat to weaken the steel gurders causing a domino effect as the floors collapsed one on top of the other. Do we know the materials used to build the Towers was up to code? How many of the terrorists visited the Towers to asses the situation and how long was this in the planning.....years I would think. Please help me understand, as I am not at all mechanical minded in these matters. Thanks!
Well.. also, skyscrapers are built to not fall "sideways." That's just not how they're engineered. Even the towers didn't fall sideways and they had planes fly into them. So the idea of making a controlled demolition to keep the building from falling sideways onto the street is.. kind of nonsensical.
I'm not picturing some sort of situation where a building just tilts sideways and lays down but in uncontrolled demolitions, they fall according to the point of least resistance and if a substantial part of a building was to go over like that then it would do quite a bit of damage.
But yeah, I've not written my own version of the 9/11 report, I just think there's something ever so slightly dodgy about the whole thing but don't buy the 'Bush did it' stuff. It wouldn't suprise me if they just sorta didn't do anything about it because it would help them accomplish a few things but I can't buy a huge government conspiracy like that.
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler
YouTube - Sarah Palin 9/11 Truther controversy explodes
sort of related.
Conspiracy theories are part of the process by which Americans deal with traumatic public events and constitute an American form of national mourning, I believe.
Which textbook did you rip that from?
Awards: Not just Americans. Chavez spouts them off regularly as a way to unite the public. Nothing stirs patriotism more than having a clear and present enemy. In China, schoolkids genuinely believe that the Chinese were the first people to set foot on the moon.
And Gosu, it's a widely held belief. It could even have been ripped from South Park.
I think a good explanation for the tide of 9/11 conspiracy theories was the ego and pride of many Americans, who refused to accept that they could be even touched by an outside enemy, so concluded it must have been the doing of the American government.
Not saying it wasn't, by the way.
this is one of the main site ive found that better decribes the theories 9-11 Research: Collapse Theories
id have to go with the truss failer or goverment cover up.
um as for when they could have planted bombs or prepared the trade centers for possable demolition in the future..
the trade center was bombed 2 times before 9/11 i think that its possable after the second failed attack that the goverment could have came up with a plan as to how to demo the buildings if they feared them crashing into other buildings to limit the casualties
Last edited by Gutter; 02-26-2010 at 02:12 AM. Reason: adding to post to respond to different post
Zerosum
Ripped from a text book, no! It appears that we need these therories to aleviate what we have no factual knowledge of. I feel it is better to therorize than say nothing. The only harm, if you will, is to believe in the impossible and close one's mind to eventual facts.
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