Thread: Problems With My Christianity

According to the christian religion, you chose to pick the right god when you see miracles happening around you by the power of prayer. Also, god sent jesus to show you which religion was the one you were supposed to follow. In history books they even mention jesus and how many people claimed to see him walking after he died. I guess this is how your supposed to know which religion to follow.

Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it isn't right. You really want to boggle your mind try and understand God. In order to do that you need to know what it is like to exist outside of time. You need to be able to think like a being who knows everything.

I understand where you are coming from Mav I really do but as sad as it sounds that is just how it is. God has a plan, and the simple fact that you do not have to choose christianity is a good example of how there is free will. You should really read some stuff about the missionaries. These people over in the muslim countries where people have grown up Islamic are eating up Christianity. These are people who grew up Islamic, and they are going underground to be a christian. I mean that has to say a lot about a place where it is illegal to be a christian.
Just something to think about.

Yeah, I wrote a paper about this for a philosophy class when I was a freshman. It's called psychological determinism, the idea that our actions are determined by a combinations of genes and environment. It's a big part of the reason I decided to study psychology, because if we don't have free will, your best bet to succeed in life is to understand why people make the decisions they make.

I always thought that if you had an infinitely large computer, you could predict people's actions with 100% certainty based on their life experiences and their genes. If that's the case, we have no free will. Right?

But it's not true. Chaos theory suggests that there are unpredictable events. If nobody knows which way the electrons in your brain will spin, then surely you could extrapolate that to say that decisions can simply be random as well. So maybe our actions are determined by chaos in combination with the genes and prior life events.

Regardless of all of this, not believing in free will is no way to live. What I've decided upon is that we do have free will, but that our choices are limited to a much narrower spectrum than we believe. The way you come closer to God is by choosing on the "good" side of that spectrum until the choices truly available to you are all good to varying degrees. It doesn't quite mesh with reality, because I could theoretically kill somebody tomorrow, even though I've spent a lifetime making mostly good choices, but the theory works for me.

I think everybody goes through a predetermination phase, largely because it makes so much sense and free will doesn't make a lot of sense at all.

Yeah...that's a very interesting point, Spike.

hmmmm

"God can't be just if He expects humans to "pick" the correct religion and damn those to hell who have not. "

so, he can be just as long as he decides for them? "You're going to hell. You're going to heaven. Why? Because I said so."

I don't like the idea that I can't control what I believe and what I choose. If that is the case people can't be held accountable for their actions.

Originally posted by DaisyDreamer@Nov 15 2004, 07:47 PM
I don't like the idea that I can't control what I believe and what I choose. If that is the case people can't be held accountable for their actions.
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So you honestly feel you are free to do as you wish?

You&#39;re ruled by your history,

Tim, I said I don&#39;t want this to turn into a disagreement and that has little to do with the problems I&#39;m having.

So shut up.

i was under the impression (and correct me if i&#39;m wrong, i only attend a catholic school [i&#39;m so NOT catholic though]) that divine predestination is not the absence of free will, but rather god&#39;s giving you the things you need to acheive your goals for his honor and glory. like, Pope John XXIII, for example. and papal infallibility. it&#39;s not saying that the pope never makes mistakes, but, instead, that he is the human closest to god, and, thus, is best able to interpret scripture and define the basis of its teaching/meaning.

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I&#39;m having trouble, though, because I just can&#39;t believe in free will. Because, I believe, that God can&#39;t be just if He expects humans to "pick" the correct religion and damn those to hell who have not.[/b]

i think christianity is based far more in the concept of free will rather than predestination. assuming our god and the superior being of islam, judaism, etc. are the same god, then how could he expect us to all pick one, if he presides over them all? our FREE WILL guides us each to choose the &#39;correct&#39; religion for ourselves, according to our placement in the world and our genes. i don&#39;t beleive that god damns random people to hell who simply don&#39;t follow christianity. i mean, just put things in perspective...do you think god would really be more upset about sex out of wedlock or murder? and i have always been under the impression that god forgives all if you are truly sorry.

considering i neither beleive in heaven nor hell (seeing as i&#39;m an atheist), i can&#39;t fully understand your motives to figure all of this out...if you&#39;re going to follow a religion, it seems like you really just have to follow it blindly, since organized religions aren&#39;t much fond of skeptics. not to mention, religion seems like a huge scare tactic to me...like, if you do ANYTHING wrong EVER you&#39;re goin&#39; to hell, dude! mmhmm....totally. i reccomend toning down your following of religion as a science...for that it is not. sometimes i think we have a choice between 2 things that each of us must choose to sacrifice: religion or intellect. i know that&#39;s extremely broad and a generalization and a stereotype, etc. but it&#39;s just how i feel more often than not.

don&#39;t become addicted to the opiate of the masses.

Originally posted by Maverick@Nov 15 2004, 09:12 PM
Tim, I said I don&#39;t want this to turn into a disagreement and that has little to do with the problems I&#39;m having.

So shut up.
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I wasn&#39;t disagreeing, I was stating a truth.

People recorded the bible, people injected their own thoughts, you have to take the base stories and think about what they mean. Christianity, from those I knew who practiced and what I&#39;ve seen, in many cases is an act of blind faith. Never are you tempted to commune with god or become close to him but only to love him and do for him. This makes sense to me, but maybe if you tried to talk to God you might be able to get a better explanation. Loving him may not be enough, to be close to him and to know him would erase the problems of other peoples interpetations.

Reilgion shouldn&#39;t be a science of long winded argument and quotes from writings, it should be a whole lot more then a assumption you base your life around. The spirtual nature is very much ignored in our modern world.

Predestination is bullshit.

Whenever I make a decision, I look at the situation from all possible angles and simulate a list of possible results of that decision, including worst case scenarios. Then I will pick the best course of action. To some degree I can do this a in a split second if I have to. Sometimes I make impulsive decisions without thinking, and often these are wrong. Im weighing it all up logically and trying to divorce my emotions from it as much as possible. I am not a product of my genes or my environment, sure they may have influence, but they dont determine everything.

I believe that people are completely responsible for their actions and have complete control over their action, although making some decisions may be harder to make than others, they are still makeable. I believe in total free will and I exercise it. No one but me determines how my life goes.