Does Good or Evil Exist?

**demon** · 06-06-2003 05:13 PM

Does good or evil exist?

My teacher, Ms. Carroll gave the whole class a new assignment. She told us it would be told as a story. I thought, "What is that crazy lady thinking?" Then when she said it would be 3-4 pages long, I basically passed out then and there.

Ms. Carroll told us to get to work so I went and looked up the words she gave us. The words we would be looking up were goodness and evil. So, like always, I set forth to the computer. I went to dictionary.com to look up the words. I discovered that the definition for goodness was "the state or quality of being good" and evil came up with being "morally wrong."

Continuing on my search, and following Ms. Carroll's directions, I searched for quotes about goodness and evil. I went on the Internet and found them at bartleby.com. For goodness I found "Goodness shall be repaid with goodness, and evil repaid with evil; never fear; the day of reckoning will come soon." This quote is a Chinese Proverb. In common language this means, "what comes around goes around," and "treat people the way you want to be treated." My second quote was; "Evil counsel travels fast". I took this to mean that those who judge evil, judge it quickly.

Continuing with my paper, we had to interview two people, one older than me and another the same age. I asked Mr. Snyder what he thought about good and evil. He said: "evil is universally bad for everyone." And as for goodness he said, "good is different, more like community." Next I asked a friend what she thought. "Wrong doing and cruel intentions" is what she said for evil, "some positive aspect of something or someone", for good.

When we went to the library we had to find three articles to summarize and relate to goodness and evil.

The first article, Statement 'From Saddam' Calls for Holy War:
After the war started on March 20, 2003, B-52 bombers were pounding Karbala while Hussein called for a jihad, or holy war. He made two televised statements but missed the one on April 1, 2003. In my opinion this article says that Hussein is evil and if he does do a holy war we will bomb them harder.

The second article, about a dead baby found in Spokane:
There was a dead baby outside Pat Caldwell's apartment in Spokane, but he did not know the baby was in the bundle. Before he found out, he told one of his daughters to get what his yard worker found. After discovering what was in the bundle Pat glad for the first time that his daughter did not listen. There was a dead baby in that bundle of towels. This article means to me that if you kill a baby, you are the most evil person alive. If you kill a baby or leave one to die, you should not even be allowed to have kids.

The final article deals with Al-Queda:
Some people are afraid that Al-Queda will attack and steal a camera and microphone from a TV station in Manhattan. In response to the threat, guards stand along 93rd street to watch over the TV station. Some people think that it is dividing the city. While that is going on outside, inside some companies are training their workers to deal with "dirty" attacks. Some of them are afraid they will be attacked before the war is over.

Continuing the quest to define good and evil, Ms. Carroll said we have to summarize something we have read over the past year while we have been in this classroom. I chose The Pearl. The Pearl is a story of different meanings: irony, evil, a tiny amount of good, and finally racism. Most of these are considered "evil." When Kino, one of the main characters, finds a giant pearl in a river he realizes that everyone wants to be his "friend." With this pearl he see himself with a rifle, new clothes, a wedding with his wife, brand new shoes and his son getting an education. But in the end he finds that the pearl does him more evil than good.

My conclusions:

I do believe there is such a thing as good and evil. In light of killing a baby and holy wars, the reason I think these are evil is because if you take a human life then you are one of the evil ones. But for good we have to look at Mr. Snyder saying "good is different, more like community". To me, this means goodness is everywhere around us, as in loving your fellow man. Whether you think I am right or wrong that is for you to decide. But one cannot exist without the other. So from my point of view both good and evil do exist. They are both all around us.

manwiththeplan · 06-07-2003 01:36 PM

deep man, deep, and i do think there is such thing as good and evil, ur article made that more imprinted in my mind

**Mindscrape** · 06-07-2003 04:01 PM

So, good and evil really do exist? How is good and evil not based upon opinions? My line of reasoning is that there is no good and evil, there are just opinions. It may be your opinion that Pol Pot was an evil man who killed 3/4 of his country. It might be another person's opinion that Pol Pot wanted to achieve good and he was forced to kill those who were not "pure" or "good" to achieve it. There is no true good or evil, just opinions.

**LittleJem** · 06-08-2003 01:29 PM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I do believe there is such a thing as good and evil. In light of killing a baby and holy wars, the reason I think these are evil is because if you take a human life then you are one of the evil ones.[/b]

How can you say that? So let me get this right killing a baby is either inside the womb and out right? Right so IF someone can't afford to feed it and its straving to death that is right?
Say a girl gets pregnant it starts to grow inside but boyfriend decided I don't want this am to young theres other girls, and threatens to dump you, your all alone no one to turn to, parents would kick you out, and you have no job and you realise you wouldn't even be able to feed yourself let alone a baby. And no matter how much you want it and to start a life you can't and you HAVE to get rid of it? your saying thats evil? Or did you mean something else cause if what I just wrote is evil then I guess am evil.

**Tia** · 06-08-2003 09:39 PM

okay. this is what I think.

Saddam Huissen- we think he's evil. and he thinks americans are evil. who should we believe?
If killing humans is wrong, i assume you dont believe in the death penelty? EVIL. such a strong, non existsant word. to be evil means you are terrible in all demensions to everyone. if you kill someone in ohio, people in japan probably wont care. it is all opinions.

if you take a life you are one of the evil ones- have you ever killed an ant?

okay. I am a teen. I get made fun of every day emotionally and physically. I have no friends and my parents dont listen to me. So my basic skedule is- wake up, go to school, be made fn of, try to go home and get beat up instead, fall asleep. day after day after day. finally, i get fed up. I bring a gun to school. i kill my bullies, then myself.

am i EVIL? am i EVIL because im made fun of every single day and can't take it anymore?

You killed my baby. now becasue of the death penelty, the government will kill you. but of course, its evil both ways, right?

h'mmm. saddam huessein is evil, but he thinks that george bush is evil. but bush thinks he is evil, and we agree. but then again, saddam killed lotsof people for no reason! wait, so did we? I'm in the army. I just killed a member of the taliban. am I evil? I'm a member of the taliban. I was opressed as a child and forced to believe as everyone else. So I am forced every day to opress others. am I evil? That ant is annoying me. i just killed it. guess im evil for taking a life. oops, i just ate a hamburger. am i evil?

for those religious fanatics, god 'takes you' when he's ready, right? so god basically 'kills' you, right? does that make god evil?

HELLOOOOOOO its just opinions.

**demon** · 06-12-2003 07:13 PM

Originally posted by Mindscrape@Jun 7 2003, 12:01 PM
So, good and evil really do exist?* How is good and evil not based upon opinions?* My line of reasoning is that there is no good and evil, there are just opinions.

that is really good

have you heard this one: Everyone is an individual, just like everyone else

Maverick · 06-15-2003 07:38 PM

Originally posted by Tia@Jun 8 2003, 07:39 PM
if you take a life you are one of the evil ones- have you ever killed an ant?

okay. I am a teen. I get made fun of every day emotionally and physically.* I have no friends and my parents dont listen to me. So my basic skedule is- wake up, go to school, be made fn of, try to go home and get beat up instead, fall asleep. day after day after day. finally, i get fed up.* I bring a gun to school. i kill my bullies, then myself.

am i EVIL? am i EVIL because im made fun of every single day and can't take it anymore?

You killed my baby. now becasue of the death penelty, the government will kill you. but of course, its evil both ways, right?

h'mmm. saddam huessein is evil, but he thinks that george bush is evil. but bush thinks he is evil, and we agree. but then again, saddam killed lotsof people for no reason! wait, so did we? I'm in the army. I just killed a member of the taliban. am I evil? I'm a member of the taliban. I was opressed as a child and forced to believe as everyone else. So I am forced every day to opress others. am I evil? That ant is annoying me. i just killed it. guess im evil for taking a life. oops, i just ate a hamburger. am i evil?

for those religious fanatics, god 'takes you' when he's ready, right? so god basically 'kills' you, right? does that make god evil?

HELLOOOOOOO its just opinions.

*snaps*...oh no you didn't girlfriend...*snaps*

Evil is relative? Nope, it's not.. to say there are different degrees of Evilness is arrogant. Are you God? Can you say that killing an ant is different then killing your bullies? NO.
The fact is, we're all evil. We all have that innate "sin nature" inside us.
Sorry to get all religious on yall again but...
Even the murderer from "The Summer of Sam" was saved and you know what? He's going to heaven, even though it might not seem fair to those that say there is a difference between something that doesn't seem THAT wrong like... masturbating to something as dispicable as killing 15 innocent women.

To say that God kills you is the perhaps dumbest thing I've ever heard. God doesn't step in and say..hmm I think I'll let 6000 ppl die (like 9-11), If he did WE WOULDN'T HAVE FREE WILL. God gives us just enough clues to let us make the choice whether he exists or not. Sorry I'm off on a tangent here...
At any rate, to say there is even a difference between evil and good presupposes that there is a God. How else would we know what's good or what's evil?
God can't be evil and he can't make mistakes. Unlike you and I.
So yes, I believe there is Good and there is Evil. We're evil and God is Good.

**Tia** · 06-16-2003 10:18 AM

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Evil is relative? Nope, it's not.. to say there are different degrees of Evilness is arrogant. Are you God? Can you say that killing an ant is different then killing your bullies? NO.
The fact is, we're all evil. We all have that innate "sin nature" inside us.[/b]

HA.
Are you God? Can you say that it's the same? Are you God? Can you say that we are all evil?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

say there is even a difference between evil and good presupposes that there is a God. How else would we know what's good or what's evil?[/b]

Maybe you missed my point. My point was that there is no evil, that there's just opinions. By asking me: "how do we know what's good and what's evil?" You assume that I believe that evil exists. Which I don't.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

God can't be evil and he can't make mistakes. Unlike you and I.[/b]

HA. As usual, you need to believe that God is the perfect being, so thatyou have someone to look up to and something to look forward to. You invent "innage sinful nature" so you have something to blame when you do something wrong. "Oh don't worry, so I killed him, It's just my inherent eveil nature, It wasn't my fault. I would've done samething bad anyway. Just blame it on the devil. The devil made me do it."

Puh-leeze. Give me absolute, unshatterable, unquestionable proof that God cannot make mistakes and that he is perfect. And don't use the bible, because a 2000 year old book that has been edited and changed throughout the years is not unqeustionable proof. Go ahead, try.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

So yes, I believe there is Good and there is Evil. We're evil and God is Good.[/b]

Once again, you make up a perfect being to look up to. Heaven forbid he's just one of us, heaven forbid he makes small mistakes once in a while, Oh no, He's perfect. Because if God isn't perfect, then what is? Something has to be perfect in all this mess, right?

Once again:
HA

**demon** · 06-16-2003 11:31 AM

Originally posted by Maverick@Jun 15 2003, 03:38 PM
To say that God kills you is the perhaps dumbest thing I've ever heard. God doesn't step in and say..hmm I think I'll let 6000 ppl die (like 9-11), If he did WE WOULDN'T HAVE FREE WILL.* God gives us just enough clues to let us make the choice whether he exists or not. Sorry I'm off on a tangent here...
At any rate, to say there is even a difference between evil and good presupposes that there is a God. How else would we know what's good or what's evil?
God can't be evil and he can't make mistakes. Unlike you and I.
So yes, I believe there is Good and there is Evil. We're evil and God is Good.

god only does stuff to make him self look good

everyonje says he made the earth but that like the bible was made up just like all the other religuos holy book

but i do believe that he does make everything happen before hand like 9-11 he probally wanted it to happen

God Is The Evil One

Maverick · 06-21-2003 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Tia@Jun 16 2003, 08:18 AM
HA. As usual, you need to believe that God is the perfect being, so thatyou have someone to look up to and something to look forward to.* You invent "innage sinful nature" so you have something to blame when you do something wrong.* "Oh don't worry, so I killed him, It's just my inherent eveil nature, It wasn't my fault.* I would've done samething bad anyway.* Just blame it on the devil.* The devil made me do it."

Puh-leeze. Give me absolute, unshatterable, unquestionable proof that God cannot make mistakes and that he is perfect.* And don't use the bible, because a 2000 year old book that has been edited and changed throughout the years is not unqeustionable proof.* Go ahead, try.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

So yes, I believe there is Good and there is Evil. We're evil and God is Good.

Once again, you make up a perfect being to look up to. Heaven forbid he's just one of us, heaven forbid he makes small mistakes once in a while, Oh no, He's perfect. Because if God isn't perfect, then what is? Something has to be perfect in all this mess, right?

Once again:
HA [/b][/quote]
No, if God made a mistake, we'd know about it. That's why he can't. If the sky turned up green tomorrow, wouldnt' we all find that abit peculiar?
God could not just be "one of us", I mean duh. He's made the rules and he can't break them. Can you fathom that? Can you explain everything in the universe? No. God can though. He has infinite knowledge.

I invent "inner sinful nature" huh? really do I? Why do little kids lie? huh? when they aren't even taught it.

LMAO. If I could give you 100% proof that God even EXISTED. What would be the point of our existence? God gives us just enough clues to figure out it on our own. I believe that's why we're here, to see if we can figure it out on our own.
Dont' blame God for the evil you do, he gave us free will and human's are naturally weak and we succumb to evil.
God let us choose good or evil. You arguing with me about this is proof enough of God giving us free choice. Looks like the plan kinda backfired huh?

Maverick · 06-21-2003 02:28 PM

Originally posted by demon@Jun 16 2003, 09:31 AM
God Is The Evil One

I'm not even gonna touch that on here Demon

**Tia** · 06-22-2003 03:08 PM

what do you mean, point of our existence? that is basically saying that you only believe in a perfect god because it gives your life a purpose. i believe god was a little lonly. so he made us. We were bored. so he created earth, or some other planet. but hey. maybe mankind itself is a mistake and our souls are only here because it's fun, or interesting or whatever. maybe the whole dam universe is a mistake. but you can't ever be 100 percent sure about anythin, because you're not god. just wonder for a second- what if there was a small fraction of a chance that god IS just like us. what would you do? would your world fall apart because you've lost your meaning? would you deny it because YOUR RIGHT and it doesnt make sense ANY OTHER WAY? maybe the sky WAS supposed to be GREEN, but god's mistake was making it blue. maybe he's just a soul who happened to be lonly and want something to do, something to love. so he created us. maybe creating us was his mistake. maybe god sneezed and out popped us. you can't ever really know for sure. to know for sure, you have to BE god, or be dead. either way, you're NOT, and neither am I. but at least I'M admitting it, instead of pretending to know everything.

'what would our purpose be?'
To enjoy ourselves and keep god company.
'wouldnt we notice if he made a mistake?'
maybe, maybe not. what if ETERNITY means that the mistakes are so far gone, we dont remember them. what if earth itself was a mistake, and we're just here to make the best of it?
'if the sky all of a sudden turned green'

actually, we only see the sky as blue because cells in our eyes see it as blue. if it turned green, that would mean our cells would have to change too, and if that happened, we probably wouldn't balame it on god. we'd blame it on pollution.

hello? kids lie because their parents do lie. ever since the beggining, yes they do.
"no honey, the shot won't hurt."
"santa clause will only come if you fall asleep!"
"mmmm! mushed peas taste good! eat, yummy!"
"if you're good, i'll buy you a gift!"

come on. your just looking for something to take the blame. maybe it's not EVIL maybe its just mistakes. or wanting to see what'll happen if you decieve mommy. or wanting a ring really bad, then taking it. that doesn't make you evil, it doesn't mean that your inherently bad, it just means your human. and that everything you've seen until now has burned it in you- you NEED this. you NEED that. so you TAKE this. you TAKE that.
cavemen who killed eachother were just trying to survive. that's not evil.
even hitler wasn't evil. he was just mistaken and damn crazy. he decided killing all the jews was the answer. (yes, I am jewish, you'd think me of all people would want to say that he's evil, but he wasn't.)

you just need a perfect loving being to look up to. and an inherent evil to take the blame whenever you do something wrong. it's never YOUR fault, you would've done it anyway, because your inherently bad. you would never be good. ever.

it's opinions, mav. OPINIONS. your beliefe, no matter how hard you try to defend it, is just an OPINION. it's not 100 percent fact. neither is mine, i'm admitting it.

why won't you? If I can admitt that my belief is just a BELIEF and not 100 percent fact, WHY CAN'T YOU?

Maverick · 06-24-2003 02:55 PM

I'm not "pretending to know everything". There is alil word called FAITH, and I believe in what the Bible tells me. The bible doesn't say "God sneezed, and there was light". God intentionally created us, as the Bible says, and I think THE BOOK has more credibility than you, Tia, or anything else in this world.
The way I see things make sense to me, and sometimes me only, and maybe not to your capability of understanding.
Give me one mistake God has made. I'd like to hear about it. God cannot be blamed for evil in this world just because he allows it. Evil is allowed because it gives us a choice to either follow Him or to follow Satan.
You say our purpose in life is to enjoy the things of the flesh and to keep God company huh? Well the Bible says differently. I could find scripture that tears that to shreds but I'm not gonna waste my time. You seem to be skeptical of the Bible so I'll just use common sense. To enjoy ourselves huh? Isn't "enjoying ourselves" relative? Hitler enjoyed killing Jews. Did God want that to happen? I mean Hitler did exist so he did keep God company too. Wow! So Hitler fulfilled God's purpose of creating humans by your standards of existance. (Sarcasm On) Sounds right to me (Sarcasm off)

What if the earth was a mistake? Doesn't say that in the Bible.

We see the sky as blue because God created our eyes to see it as blue. True, people would blame it on pollution, because alot of people nowadays don't believe in God or that He has a purpose for everything. If we all saw the sky as green tomorrow, it'd be because it is in His plan.

Wait.. those kid's parents had parents who had parents who had parents and so on right? Well what happened with Adam and Eve or the scientific Adam and Eve, they HAD to lie to teach their kids to lie to teach their kids to teach...and so on. It had to start somewhere. Hence the innate evil nature of humans. We're imperfect and Jesus was God's son, so he was perfect and exemplary to what is good.

To be human is to be inherently bad lol. Everybody sins and makes mistakes. And cavemen don't have the priviledge we have now of a conscience or of knowing of the Bible and Jesus. That was Jesus' purpose when he came to earth, to redeem the sins of Human kind.

When somebody does something even, they CHOOSE to do it. They aren't blaming evil itself. God can't blame EVIL, when YOU CHOOSE to steal or murder, he gave us free will and you are the one that CHOOSE to stray from his Word.
When I say we are inherently bad, I mean we all have the weakness of sin, we ALL will stray away from God at one point or another.

I know it's not 100% fact, but I believe in what I believe because it makes more sense than your "mistakes" crap. It's about faith.

**dragonknight** · 06-24-2003 03:27 PM

To say that evil doesn't exist would be to discredit every good thing that was ever done. To say that evil doesn't exist would mean that we just are, that to do something nice for someone would be irrelevant because if I thought you were better off dead it would be a nice thing for me to kill you. Whether I want to believe that is true or not doesn't make it right.
People who see things like that as good have a term attached to them in this world and it is called "sick"

As for this whole God allowing evil in this world I find it funny when people say if God were a loving God he wouldn't allow bad things to happen. Those same people then go off when someone starts talking about premarital sex and how they can do anything they want cause it is their body.....well which is it? Free Will or God stopping evil in this world??

**Tia** · 06-24-2003 05:35 PM

let me get this straight....

you'd rather believe what a 2000 year old book tells you than listen to what your heart says?

how do you know that the bible isn't a load of crap? that 4 million people believe in a hoax? that 2000 years ago, a dude decided to write a book saying how great jesus was, and now, years later, it's a religion? that each version of the bible is different? can be interpreted differently? whole passages in the bible contradict eachother? in the old testament, we have a mean surly god who needs specific PHYSICAL accomadations and sacrifices, and in the new testament, we have a loving and forgiving god who adores all? but STILL NEEEEEEEDS you to believe in him?

You'd rather believe in a god that made it rain for a month, killing everyone who was 'bad' and only leaving noah and his family? a god who lived on animal sacrifices? a god who gets jealous if you worship other 'false' gods? a god who for some odd reason would have disowned the jews if they didn't follow the rules? a god who wants you to devote an entire day to worshiping him?

a book that was written by human beings 2000 years ago? that DEFIES faith. you weren't around back then, so having faith in something like that is almost absurd. for all you know, john paul peter, mathew, and all of them were just making it up. seriously, that could be the case. but you refuse to consider it because from the inute you were born, you've had your beliefs hammered into your brain so hard that you can't think for yourself anymore. I bet if god himself walked up to you and told you that the bible was a joke, you still wouldn't believe him.

ITS A BOOK. ITS 2000 YEARS OLD.

I could write a fictional book, pretending to be differen people, making up a savior, miricles, disasers, contestrs, and rules and write it and put it together and bury it, and a few years later someone could find it, think it's the truth, and start a religeon based on that book and believe it to be truth. since you didn't live back then, YOU DONT know, maybe that's what the bible is! a hoax! how do you know it's not? because other people tell you it's not? because it's what youve believed all your life, and you don't want to give it up?

how do you know the earth wasn't a mistake? because of the BIBLE, right?
::shakes head::

don't tell me you believe in adam and eve.
dear LORD DO NOT TELL ME that you believe in adam and EVE!!!!!

::stares at mav in wonder::

is there something malfunctioning in there? that you believe in adam and eve? even when 99 percent of the rest of the world knows that evolution is true, you still believe in adam and eve?

::laughs::

lies.
h'mmm.

obviously nothing I say will change your thick little mind, so i dont know why i even bother. but, here we go, anyway........

LIES ARE NOT EVIL, DUMMIE. lies might be bad to your personal perception, but come on. are ALL lies bad?

to answer your quiestion, YES. probably some caveman lied to his friend, telling him there was a bear behind him so he could steal his food. that's how you survived back then.

DK...

'nice' doesnt have anything to do with it. it isn't discrediting anything. yes, killing someone is WRONG but it's not pure EVIL, because you personally believe what you are doing is RIGHT. as long as ONE PERSON believe's it's okay, then it can't be 100 percent pure evil. or 100 pecent pure good.
it can be wrong, bad, right, good, neutral, immoral, whatever. but nothing is PURE.

a murderor will always have a little peice of 'good' inside of him.
mother thereasa probably did something or other when she was younger that was 'bad' so she wasn't pure 'good'.

to be EVIL or GOOD means to have every part and fraction of that deed or existence has 100 percent EVIL or GOOD. and that never happens. who's to decide what's evil and what's not?

murder is evil, but it's not evil when you kill the man who murdered your mom? it might be 'justified', but it doesnt make it more or less 'evil.'

yes, i suppose everyone has some evil in him, but no one is ALL evil.
no one is ALL good.
there's a mix.

--------------------------
and I'm sorry, but every time you say that god can't make mistakes, I LAUGH.

::laughs to demonstrate::

if god is so high and mighty and perfect, then he must be ABLE to make mistakes.
if it was impossible for him to make a mistake, then he wouldn't be able to do everytihng.
which would make him, DUM DA DUM! IMperfect.

--------------------------------

please, open your minds to other beliefs. don't just blindly go.

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