Brewtality

Well, no. National Socialism was a political ideology. 'Slavery' was not. National Socialism was about a lot more than just killing Jews. Slavery was only about enslaving black people and forcing them to work. It's not even as if it took people 'years to realise' slavery was wrong. There were plenty of people who opposed it but the sound of money piling up seemed to drown out those voices of dissent.

Well, the actions of the holocaust were carried out by the state. Slavery was a private enterprise. What you have to understand is that Nazi Germany was totally different to America during the time of slavery. If you were a German in WWII and you lived out in the sticks near a concentration camp and one day you went for a walk and saw it, and even saw somebody get got, what would you do? Who are you going to turn to? It's not as if you can complain to your local elected official is it? Nothing short of a popular national uprising would've stopped the Holocaust in Germany and that was made particularly hard by the fact that the people of age to fight were drafted into the military!

I don't really see where economics comes into it though.

__________________
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler

Ghetto Onion

I was thinking more of the "bounce-back" from the Holocaust. It seems that a lot of the counter-racism over here in the States between blacks towards whites is that the black people view us as "rich", I've personally been called a "rich white girl" before. So not only were they slaves but they are resentful for their continuing poor financial conditions. Whereas the Jewish have always been associated with having money and aren't portrayed today as still living in slums and such. I was simply making a sweeping assumption that the Jewish, being able to bounce back financially, might have been more resentful if they lived in shitty conditions decades later.

__________________
"The deepest definition of youth is life as yet untouched by tragedy."
-Alfred North Whitehead


"Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world."
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Brewtality

Jews having loads of money is a racial stereotype. I don't think having hidden Jew money has anything to do with Jews 'bouncing back' after WWII.

After WWII, Jewish people weren't considered second-class citizens. They weren't banned from going into 'White-only' places, they weren't banned from attending certain schools, weren't set upon by lynch mobs and aren't still treated as second-class citizens today.

It's pretty redundant comparing the Jewish experience at the start of the 20th Century with the experiences of Black people in America because they're completely different situations.

__________________
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler

Trionix

I think you're over-egging the pudding and kind of missing what Ghetto's saying here man.

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True

It helps that with the Holocaust you have a person to pin point for all your troubles. Even though hatred and mistreatment of Jews existed prior to Hitler's craziness.

I think its interesting that people forget that America is not the land of equal opportunities. If you are a minority you are at a huge disadvantage. Yes there are more educational scholarships available to you but institutional racism helps make those unattainable. It really bothers me that people who do not understand basic history reproduce. Lets continue the cycle of ignorance.

Gosu

Some guys at my uni pressed up as the Jackson 5 for Halloween, complete with blackface, in response to the Hey Hey scandal. It was funny and no one cared. People need to get over this kinda stuff when it's are obviously not meant to offend.

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Trionix

I think it sucks that we never got to do our Papa Lazarou bar crawl out of fear that we might maybe offend someone.

I hate that shit. Worrying about whether something might offend someone, or being personally offended because you've seen something that might offend someone else. It's bullshit.

Just do it, if someone is actually offended, discuss it with them, if all they've got to offer is, 'well old people/black people/jews/chavs/everton fans/andrew sachs might maybe be offended', fuck them, enjoy yourself.

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Gosu

Word.

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True

Its easy for you guys to say that because you are from nations that do not have a similar history to America.

Would it be socially acceptable for people to dress as traditional aboriginals for say Halloween?

From my personal experience racism in England is nothing compared to racism in America. So i agree that minstrel acts should not be encouraged in our media.

Trionix

And what personal experience is that, exactly?

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Brewtality

Yeah, England never had a slavery problem and I certainly haven't been living in one of the centres of the transatlantic slave-trade for the past few years. Is dressing up as an aboriginal the same as dressing up as a well-known black celebrity? I don't personally think that dressing up like Mr T. or something should be off limits. I wouldn't go out dressed as a slave but that's not quite the same thing is it?

Interestingly, here in Spain, blackface isn't a big deal at all. At Halloween there were plenty of people walking around with afro wigs and brown make-up on. There's even a TV advert for an energy company where a dude is dreaming of being in the Caribbean and he's dancing around with make-up and dreadlocks to a reggae tune. It's totally innocent but you'd never be able to do it in the UK.

And Tri, I happen to like plenty of eggs in my pudding but all I'm trying to say is that you're not going to get anywhere contrasting the Holocaust with slavery and racism in America because they're different situations - especially when you're talking about 'bouncing back'. No doubt that if Jewish populations in Europe post-WWII endured continued second-class citizen status then they would be 'more pissed off than they are today'. That said, if you evoke anything from the period of the holocaust, you're met with a very strong reaction, just like black people in America respond strongly when reminded of their past.

__________________
The broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes... Adolf Hitler

True

Brew-

I simply stated that America, Australia and the UK do not have the same history. I did not say that England does not have a history coloured with slavery. I know better.Slavery was abolished much earlier in England than in the US. All i'm saying is that our nations progressed differently. Talking about slavery is still a difficult and sensitive topic in America. It is so sensitive that people do not learn the proper information. Its grazed over in our education system. This is one of the reasons why the african-american race is a constant political topic.

As for the aboriginal comment, when we learn about aboriginals we learn about didgeridoos, lack of clothing and the white face paint. I was just trying to get at how it would be inappropriate and racist to dress as an aboriginal based on the "typical image" we learn.

I don't care if you dress up as a celebrity. What i do have a problem with is putting on a black face that is minstrel like. That is very different. The hey hey video was minstrel like and as was Papa Lazarou. Its all about how you do it. I find dressing like stereotypes offensive.

Chandra

Sorry I'm just getting back to this but I dont have much time I'll just touch on what I skimmed over.....

I still stand my ground firmly that blacks and whites should be held equally. I believe that racizm (don't know the correct spelling) goes both ways against blacks and whites. If blacks are allowed to MAKE MOVIES about making fun of white woman and ect then this girl should be allowed to dress like LIL WAYNE (who happens to be black). White men have built this whole country as well as black men and should both have the same treatment as well as privaledges.

Woman for YEARS had no rights at all. But you don't see females rebelling asking for extra rights because of the years they were so unsuperior to men.

White people were absolutley held as slaves for MANY YEARS! As were indians and many other races.

http://www.israelect.com/reference/W...in/SLAVE-1.htm

White Slavery in America

"
Up to one-half of all the arrivals in the American colonies were Whites slaves and they were America's first slaves. These Whites were slaves for life, long before Blacks ever were. This slavery was even hereditary. White children born to White slaves were enslaved too.
Whites were auctioned on the block with children sold and separated from their parents and wives sold and separated from their husbands. Free Black property owners strutted the streets of northern and southern American cities while White slaves were worked to death in the sugar mills of Barbados and Jamaica and the plantations of Virginia..................... "

Slaves of a different color - Salon.com

The Truth About Slavery, from the American Dissident Voices

(Maybe you should brush up on your American history.......)

Please do not take it that I dont feel badly for the african american race being that for those years they were slaves. But white americans went through the same thing... I do very much hate that that time was part of our countries history but what is done and done and over and well compensated for. Times are TOTALLY different now.

Brew- about your comment that guettos and projects are put to keep blacks out of society. That is absolutley ridiculous to think that. No one is FORCING black people to live in the projects. Black people have just as much ability IF NOT MORE to go to college or get good jobs. Scholorships and financial help in America is FAR MORE easier to get for African Americans than whites.

And not to mention the amount of people who live off of welfare that IS PROVIDED BY mostly THE HARD WORKING WHITE MEN of this country. People now days have to work like SLAVES to make enough money to be able to pay taxes to go to welfare whiles still providing for their own family for mostly black people who live off of welfare WHO ARE MORE THAN CAPABLE OF GETTING A JOB! Now don't get me wrong again I know there are alot of white people too who use welfare also... but the stereotype always points to blacks and I know in my place of residences all of the goverment assisted housing is all prominently filled by blacks.

I guess I have given off the wrong impession of my view of races and ect. This debate has gotten alot deeper than I expected. I just can't stand to see how as the years go by the debate gets worse and worse and whites get it harder and harder. What is happening to this girl is totally unfair.

There is a police officer in my area who just lost his job as a cop because while arresting a black man the man grabbed the cops privates so the cop hit him with his baton. Now of course everyone has rushed in to blame this on racizm... but if it would of been a white man being arrested it would have never been mentioned. And not one time in any article about this has anyone made a big deal about the black man grabbing the cops privates... its all that he hit him because he was black...

And thats' one of the THOUSANDS OF MILLIONS of instances that the racial card is pulled against whites...

My point of starting this topic was about this girl who is losing her job because of dressing up like a rapper!! IN WHICH I STAND MY GROUND THAT I THINK THAT IS RIDICULOUS!

I do not believe that white people are treated fairly in all cases as well as I do not believe that blacks are either. I BELIEVE THAT RACIAL DISCRINATION GOES BOTH WAYS!!!!!!!!!

But anyway I could go on all day about my belief but the bottom line is I believe what I believe from MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE and you believe what you believe no matter how long we waste our time on debating the subject.

Ghetto Onion

I was going to respond to your post Chandra and then I realized you're just a closet-racist who defends their ignorant standpoint to the death.

Your "facts" have contradicting points, maybe you should've read them first. And I stopped reading one of them when I got to here:

"It is a tragedy of monumental proportions that our schools have been converted into "liberal" brainwashing institutions, though I do feel a sense of encouragement when I read that more and more real Americans are taking their children out of the public schools and teaching them at home."

__________________
"The deepest definition of youth is life as yet untouched by tragedy."
-Alfred North Whitehead


"Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world."
-Arthur Schopenhauer